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 Pine bank november 13 newsletter

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:22 pm

Leroy sends word he will be visiting Gavin tomorrow; if anyone has any questions...also reports of the wonderful visit he had with Megan and Kevin ...pics for KC when he gets home!
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:14 pm

Leroy made it back from NZ; we chatted today about this year`s Gathering; laughing about his enjoyable time with Gavin recently; Megan and Kevin earlier...pics coming!
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:39 pm

Glad to hear Leroy home safely - it was a pleasure to meet him and welcome him to our place.  Very Happy 
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:29 pm

http://angusnz.com/internet_solutions_indexes.php

you gotta be kidding me...  the results from these two indexes are predictably worthy of separating?
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:40 pm

MKeeney wrote:
http://angusnz.com/internet_solutions_indexes.php

you gotta be kidding me...  the results from these two indexes are predictably worthy of separating?

Too complicated for me to comprehend right now. Looks like the pure ones grow slower and have a lower yield. That seems a bit backwards to me but nothing new about my normal abnormal vantage point. The other odd thing is that they assume that no bulls are to be kept in a herd of self-replacers. That seems backwards, too. Maybe it is my lefthandedness!
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:38 pm

The weight assumption for the carcase has been increased to closer to 400kg as at April 1st.  Amazingly cattle that were not worth a tin of you know what on the 31st of March now have pretty decent $ figures for Angus Pure - we are not converts - even if our cattle are suddenly promoted from dog tucker to wonder boys - the whole absence of accuracies and the concept of turning figures into $'s (I mean come on - how does that even work - meat schedule pricing changes on a weekly basis in NZ and the exchange rate daily / hourly!)  Seemingly the animals with the highest dollar figures are the ones that based on pedigree, structure, eye appeal and meatiness (despite their impressive carcase data) do not interest us - guess we will just have to stick to breeding hill country cattle and let others breed $ indexes jocolor .

Eddie you are very sharp eyed - have never ever noticed the reference to all male progeny being killed - haha - not common for commercial guys to keep their own bulls in NZ but many stud breeders are chasing the indexes to breed bulls that they then expect to grow out to well grown 2 year olds - that is priceless that the index cannot reflect that concept - well done you  cheers cheers

The Angus Pure (NZ Angus branded meat programme - like CAB) and the Self Replacing Index are actually calculated very closely - there is apparently going to be some effort to put some distance between them as at the present time they are a bit like the $B and $En being identical - my understanding is that they are, and should be, antagonistic?
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:39 am

Quote :
Eddie you are very sharp eyed - have never ever noticed the reference to all male progeny being killed - haha - not common for commercial guys to keep their own bulls in NZ but many stud breeders are chasing the indexes to breed bulls that they then expect to grow out to well grown 2 year olds - that is priceless that the index cannot reflect that concept - well done you


I always watch for the subliminal messages!
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:49 am

I`ll share a couple of selected email comments from Gavin...always a delight...

Mike

Good to keep in touch and to know that everything is going well for you..     My map of America is hopeless as I cannot see on it where the States begin and finish, so I have no idea where any of you live.        I did not reply to the discussion on the last Newsletter that you put up and your member’s discussion.       I must say that I enjoy discussion but your member probably thought that I had no answers!.

Looks as though you are in for a long cold  Winter , we have just had one and now our Spring Summer coming up is slow coming.      We have had a good year with the bulls with them all sold plus.        Like all counrries N.Z. is divided into two camps.    Us and the olds although there is one else as old as I am!.         The olds are much more worried about us then we are about them and that is a good position to be in.

I come into your forum regularly to see what the thinking of your breeds is at any point in time ...        Regards
Gavin


Mike

I am afraid that we have always been completely different.        I work on variation and generation interval as our only way to make improvement.     You and Larry have been working on stabilizing type.   But there is room for all types so just keep doing your thing.     Did you say that you are using your best yearling bull each year.      If you are how is it going.     Doing that, you can move your population in any direction that you feel necessary quickly.

Larry and I use to have the most interesting letters.    I studied his letters very closely considering the ramifications.     He was of course stabilizing his cattle something that we have no wish to do!.      In this cattle breeding world there is room for everyone each must fulfill his need and out of it all will hopefully arise what is best for the breed and will push the breed to the very top of the beef breeding industry so that all the world breeds ANGUS cattle.

You go your way and I’ll go mine.      Come on the future……..but not too fast for me

Regards

Gavin

my reply

awww, I would argue that your closed herd contributes more stabilization effect than your selection creates change; therefore, your methods are very worthy of study for my purposes. My “best” is not a top growth bull; but one selected to maintain the desired type and draw the extremes toward the center of that ideal; always mindful of the priority of eliminating problems rather than seeking more production...
the Angus breed is too varied to call a breed; I call it a registry...I call Pinebank , Shoshone , or GAR {gasp; as they are despised by some of the zealots} a breed...
good thing we get to live the future as we have the past; one day at a time; one bull at a time...but it sure seems there`s only 8 hrs in these days... Smile

always appreciative of your response, mk

ps..of course, Shoshone is a breed without a registry; I`m just without a registry because I`m not a breed Embarassed ...yet...and for me, those days may be too short; but not for these young whippersnappers here  Very Happy


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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:25 pm

from Gavin

Mike

You will of course be progeny testing your home bred bull against your present sire. If you have begun using your best sire along side your present best bull. Then you are in the position of being able to move your herd in any direction by selecting your own bull that best represents those characters that you wish to stabilize or improve, But change that bull every year, Going to be interesting to see whether you are pleased with the result After all we have been doing it since 1962 and are very please with the result

Wish Larry’s boys happy Xmas from me and best wishes for their cattle breeding future. If they make anything like the contribution that their father did we will all be following.

Happy xmas to you all

Gavin

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jonken



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:34 pm

But change that bull every year
[/quote]


Thirty years ago college educators did their damndest to convince myself  that quick genetic turnover was a must for every herd . To their disappointment I never bought that philosophy and still do not .  Jon
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:50 am

Firmly in your camp there Jon. If they are producing what we are looking for then we don't stop using them until our herd is full of them.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:51 am

pukerimu wrote:
Firmly in your camp there Jon.  If they are producing what we are looking for then we don't stop using them until our herd is full of them.  

even with my  limited exposure to your breeding principles, would it not be fair to say fill the herd up with them while looking for the next bull to cross   them with to dilute the concentration of the bloodline previously favored ?
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:38 pm

Still most of our cattle are closely related - nowadays even the bulls introduced - we breed for type. We like to practise our own form of True-Line - aka marching to the beat of our own drum - or perhaps more pertinently ................ waving our own flag lol!
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:39 pm

type to type, of at best loosely related stock is about as close to prepotency as breeders get these days...performance selection has diminished prepotency to a modern day after thought...is it because the cattle or the buyer can`t stand up the  pressure ? likely both , in my opinion... if prepotency is not a goal, why purebreds? oh, improvement of performance? then why not crossbreed type to type and get more performance...just an extension of the same principle, and especially now that
crossbreds can be registered


ps...closely related defined...half sib matings; not occasionally, or accidently, but with and on purpose...
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:44 pm

I'll take Bastardized Words for $1,000, Alex.

Your Answer: Moderate, Maternal, Tru-Line.

What are "Words that I can no longer use to discuss cattle breeding"?

That is correct. Please select again.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:29 pm

Tom D wrote:
I'll take Bastardized Words for $1,000, Alex.

Your Answer:    Moderate, Maternal, Tru-Line.

What are "Words that I can no longer use to discuss cattle breeding"?

That is correct.  Please select again.

Word Police.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:27 am

Tom D wrote:
I'll take Bastardized Words for $1,000, Alex.

Your Answer:    Moderate, Maternal, Tru-Line.

What are "Words that I can no longer use to discuss cattle breeding"?

That is correct.  Please select again.

I'll take Bastardized Words for $2,000, Alex.

Your Answer: Purebred

What is the word registered breeders most often use to describe their stock.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:03 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Tom D wrote:
I'll take Bastardized Words for $1,000, Alex.

Your Answer:    Moderate, Maternal, Tru-Line.

What are "Words that I can no longer use to discuss cattle breeding"?

That is correct.  Please select again.

I'll take Bastardized Words for $2,000, Alex.

Your Answer:   Purebred

What is the word registered breeders most often use to describe their stock.

Pat, I'd like to buy a vowel. I'd like an A.

Well Ed there are FIVE A's.

We'll wait for Vanna to turn them and then you'll have 5 seconds to solve the puzzle or spin again ...

A _ _ _ _ _ a _ A _ _ _ _ A _ _ _ _ _ a_ _ _ _
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Pine bank november 13 newsletter   Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:14 pm

EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
Tom D wrote:
I'll take Bastardized Words for $1,000, Alex.

Your Answer:    Moderate, Maternal, Tru-Line.

What are "Words that I can no longer use to discuss cattle breeding"?

That is correct.  Please select again.

I'll take Bastardized Words for $2,000, Alex.

Your Answer:   Purebred

What is the word registered breeders most often use to describe their stock.

Pat, I'd like to buy a vowel.  I'd like an A.

Well Ed there are FIVE A's.  

We'll wait for Vanna to turn them and then you'll have 5 seconds to solve the puzzle or spin again ...



A _ _ _ _ _ a _  A _ _ _ _  A _ _ _ _ _ a_ _ _ _

is there an s?
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