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 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:28 pm

Will wrote:
Thanks but no thanks.  I'm having way to much fun to be in a rush.  No need to save time.  I enjoy building things and once there built I lose interest and go looking for something new to build.   No need for a good cross bull for any price either but thanks anyway.

my goodness Will; you no longer believe in composites and have started crossing purebreds?  cheers Smile 
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:29 pm

Will wrote:
Oh I forgot to ask.  Which maternally stabilized bulls did you band?  The high performance ones or the peewee's?  Shocked 

the non-stabilized ones  Smile 
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:30 pm

Purebred Wagyu bull, hybrid cow.
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jonken



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:43 pm

Will wrote:
Thanks but no thanks.  I'm having way to much fun to be in a rush.  No need to save time.  I enjoy building things and once there built I lose interest and go looking for something new to build.   No need for a good cross bull for any price either but thanks anyway.


 And here I thought you had so much POTENTIAL Will, especially after learning about so much POTENTIAL in your one day old calf.

   Jon ,  thankful Will is not a simple minded engineer.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:27 am

Will wrote:
Purebred Wagyu bull, hybrid cow.

hybrid cow, made from purebred components

I agree...but gets to be a lot of groups to maintain or depend on other breeders...thus creating the need for tru-line breeders  cheers
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:37 am

Jonken, The first Wagyu Hybrid heifer calf is no longer a day old. I like her more every day. She is gonna be a great one. Growing like a weed! Bull calf the same way. He is out of one of my lowest birthweight cow families and I was pleasantly surprised he weight 73 pounds at birth. He's polled now and if he stays that way he'll be left as a heifer bull! You ever hear the saying....If you like them the day they're born you'll love them sale day? That is very true.
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:00 am

I have never had a problem depending on other breeders. You have to sort but those breeders have always been available. I always tap that knowledge. That is one huge advantage I have had the past thirty years. I have been involved in several breeds and that increases the number of minds I have been able to tap! I really enjoy tapping minds. It's a money maker and Wagyu will be no different.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:39 pm

Quote :
If you like them the day they're born you'll love them sale day? That is very true.

Somebody probably said that about Precision and 036, too? Every frog sings the praises of his own pond. That is very true.
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:52 pm

Mike, how well do you know Will?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:15 pm

RobertMac wrote:
Mike, how well do you know Will?

well enough to know better  Smile 
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:30 pm

MKeeney wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
Mike, how well do you know Will?

well enough to know better  Smile 

Has been interesting  alien 
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:52 pm

Precision and 036 were stepping stone that I never used but Precision sired Future Direction and 036 sired 878. We had an 878 Sim-Angus herd bull sired by 878. Used him on heifers the first three years and then on cows for 5 years. He would dominate a cow. Stamp them one like the other. I would estimate we sold over $250,000 worth of bulls out of him and the daughters he left is where he really shined. There was a sort, some with a bit to much late grow, but the keepers are really good. Paid $3,000 for him as a yearling. We no longer needed him so we pounded him this fall. Weighed an even ton right out of pasture and brought a buck a pound. That's the way I like to buy my herd bulls. Perfect feet and legs. Perfect disposition. Only other minor fault was the daughters hold their hair a bit longer in the spring than I like and that might of been because we never fed much mineral for the past 5 years. He was a 6.3 frame bull as a yearling and a 5.5 frame bull when we sold him.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:24 pm

little slow growing bulls used on high maintenance cows seems reverse efficiency to me...why not do like BobH and create your Wagyu crossbreds from your heifers alone ?
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:35 pm

What are you mumbling about now. Best have another one.
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:33 pm

Will Lets all have a drink....... This has been a good thread. Razz  Razz  Razz
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:24 am

W.T. wrote:
Will Lets all have a drink....... This has been a good thread. Razz  Razz  Razz

ignorance is never good, but often funny... Smile 
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:32 am

I cannot believe the general distrust and malevolence toward the seedstock producer that exists on here.

there are those that come to hate bullshit after so long a time...

I have been on the purebred and commercial end of both the dairy and beef businesses up here. Just like any business there is always a disconnect in what is perceived costs and what is realized value.

realized costs create perceived value..

To think that there is only a 500$per head spread in cost/value between a well developed yearling bull from a well thought out program and that calf as a fed steer is not sustainable.

a well developed bull must be a fat bull?

a well thought out program ...thinking has a cost?


I cull cows that 95% of comm producers would keep, just so I don't pass those traits on to their herds.

uh oh...a lack of understanding of natural law of genetic variation...

Am I supposed to absorb all those costs?

yes, a breeder bears the costs of his own mistakes...

10 years of below cost cattle prices have pretty much eliminated the cheapo bull buyer up here as they generally were low end producers looking for cow stickers.

the people I know "up there" using cheaper bulls are expanding;  the greatest rate of leaving "the business" in the US are the registered breeders with the ballyhooed cattle

I am not afraid to ask a premium for my bulls, and repeat buyers and new customers dictate the value they realized. Do I believe I need to spend 20k to get a good herd bull? No but you better believe that I have to compete with astute comm farms to get those exceptional genetics that I can base my herd on.

exceptional is a marketers word for outlier...

There is no formula that can quantify the VALUE that each bull brings to an operation.

so $ indexes aren`t accurate? on that, we can agree...

Several bull customers of mine I also provide agronomics services to as well as advise on feeding ect. therefore I am supplying VALUE over and above the germ plasm my bulls provide.

yes, outlier genetics demands outlier grass and feed...AND OUTLIER COSTS

perhaps if some of you saw a bull customer as a client relationship you could extract more VALUE than the fed steer pice+ semen test cost. Oh as well a defeatist myopic jealous attitude is contagious to your customers,

When I go to the bank to make deposits, I`m not jealous of those there borrowing money; I am a little pissed that their loan is guaranteed by me


Good post.I've spent years,miles,lot's of money,ton's of research on building the cows that my bulls come from,

I had a little taste of the above; enough to make me smart enough to stay home and quit wasting money...

I believe there's more value than just the bull standing there,he's an investment of my life

life`s a game you cannot win; all you can do is play...no one need pay me for my own self satisfaction; it`s rewarding way beyond dollar value...


and I expect him to add value to the producers cows that buys him. How do you price that???

not on expectations; but on reality...welcome to the real world...
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:34 am

W.T., WOW, no double WOW!!!!!!! You just got shot out of the saddle big time!!!!! What a slam!!!!!!!  I agree with you this a really good thread.
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:43 am

Where do you get that I have high maintenance cows? I don't. Please do not confuse my Sim-Angus program with your Sim-Angus Program. Why should I mate more cows Sim-Angus than I need for replacements? The Wagyu Hybrids bring in the gold! It looks like I am going to have to post a picture or two. Maybe that Mike from Montana can help me after he finishes his computer class. Laughing Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:20 am

MKeeney wrote:
W.T. wrote:
Will Lets all have a drink....... This has been a good thread. Razz  Razz  Razz

ignorance is never good, but often funny... Smile 

As I read on Mike Ignorance is BLISS..... lol!  lol!
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:58 am

Best part of this thread is the pictures. Would you agree W.T.?
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:59 am

Will wrote:
Best part of this thread is the pictures.  Would you agree W.T.?

Will the pictures are wonderful as they portray cattle as they should be portrayed. But the Highlight is you Will you have brightened everyone's day with your boyish enthusiasm over one New calf in the herd. I am reminded of Shakespeare....... To Be Or Not To Be. lol!  lol!
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:10 pm

W.T. wrote:
Will wrote:
Best part of this thread is the pictures.  Would you agree W.T.?

Will the pictures are wonderful as they portray cattle as they should be portrayed. But the Highlight is you Will you have brightened everyone's day with your boyish enthusiasm over one New calf in the herd. I am reminded of Shakespeare....... To Be Or Not To Be. lol!  lol!

Or, "I'm sorry I only have one calf to give for my FUTURE story."
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:11 pm

Thanks I think. Two calves but it is a trend I really like. See no one understands where I have been. After getting wiped out by AM and NH I lost the enjoyment I had raising cattle. Wagyu put that enjoyment back into my life. I have all kinds of places to go and look at Wagyu. I will forever be grateful to Wagyu!
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:16 pm

Our basic objective here is to present ideas to stimulate the development of parent stock that can REGULARLY produce beef animals which at the lowest possible cost and expenditure of labor give the highest possible and longest lasting net returns. Not just for ourselves, but moreso for the commercial producers.

the PRINCIPLES of the successful breeder have been EXCEEDINGLY SIMPLE. He ISOLATES and FIXES a GOOD type by careful selection and CLOSE breeding. If ambitious, he takes a greater step in advance, he CROSSES types with the characteristics which SEEM to offer POSSIBILITIES for a DESIREABLE COMBINATION and FIXES the new ideal by continued SELECTION and CLOSE breeding. He brings inferior stock up to a HIGHER LEVEL by THE CONSISTENT use of PREPOTENT sires of the SAME improved type. The DIFFICULTY lies not so much in knowing the principles as in APPLYING them."
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