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 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale

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Bob H



Posts : 292
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:42 am

It is amazing how when you put so called average cattle in front of real world Cattle buyers and weigh them, the bullshit stops and uniformity with quality prevail in the price scheme. Thank you for sharing Bob H
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:21 am

Bob H wrote:
It is amazing how when you put so called average cattle in front of real world Cattle buyers and weigh them, the bullshit stops and uniformity with quality prevail in the price scheme.  Thank you for sharing Bob H

Bob,
the mainstream bs`ers have  difficulty dealing with real weights...you can multiply by about 2.5 how much heavier their heifers or steers are at  a year, and get a good idea how much bigger their cows will be mature...
900 instead of 750 means about 375 lbs of additional mature cow weight...

of course, in the epd theoretical, they are making them light at birth, heavier at a year, but not heavier as cows...but last time I ventured out, the cows were bigger, not smaller

and then we have the master bs`er  farao , whose bulls breed differently according to sex of offspring...the heifers and cows are fat on hen scratch, but the steers, complete with data to prove it, are yield grade 2 coming out of corn feedlots on the rail...

and relative to a topic we discussed here recently on reducing bw variation, ....  farao  consistency of birth weights  , 98 % within a 5 lb range...amazing the uniformity a pencil can produce...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:18 pm

thoughts for the day...

if you can`t read a book by looking at cover, can you appraise a breeding program by looking at the outlier?

can you stabilize all other traits while selecting for movement of one trait?

applying Newton`s first law...a body in motion stays in motion until acted upon by an external force...

Keeney Angus is an external force...Shocked 

on a millisecond of motion in the universe  Very Happy Very Happy 
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jonken



Posts : 115
Join date : 2011-12-17
Location : nemo

PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:19 am

[quote="MKeeney"]thoughts for the day...


applying Newton`s first law...a body in motion stays in motion until acted upon by an external force...

Let me be the first one to revise the above quote to birthdays........  A year older but all is good as long as a body in motion remains in motion.    Happy Birthday!    I like Frank Sinatra's quote best...."Life would be infinitely better if we could be born at the age of eighty, and gradually approach eighteen."

Enjoy your day.
Kendra
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:01 pm

jonken wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
thoughts for the day...


applying Newton`s first law...a body in motion stays in motion until acted upon by an external force...

Let me be the first one to revise the above quote to birthdays........  A year older but all is good as long as a body in motion remains in motion.    Happy Birthday!    I like Frank Sinatra's quote best...."Life would be infinitely better if we could be born at the age of eighty, and gradually approach eighteen."

Enjoy your day.
Kendra

thx Kendra...68 is not so bad if you say it quick... Smile after all, I am closer to the day I can shoot my age on the golf course; I sincerely hope that milestone score is 90  cheers 
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:24 pm

how nice to read some common sense; of all places, ACS

My rule of thumb has always been.....Get what you need bought as cheaply as you can. Odds are if you go to an under advertised place you will do an excellent job of getting her done. Why pay someone else`s advertising bill?
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RobertMac



Posts : 262
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:21 pm

Looking through my "Cattle Business in Mississippi" magazine(something I rarely do) and, lo and behold, there is a Kenney's Corner ad. Particularly liked "the pedigree is in the name"!
Hope someone down here is smart enough to come see you.
Good luck, Mike
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:45 pm

RobertMac wrote:
Looking through my "Cattle Business in Mississippi" magazine(something I rarely do) and, lo and behold, there is a Kenney's Corner ad. Particularly liked "the pedigree is in the name"!
Hope someone down here is smart enough to come see you.
Good luck, Mike

Robert,
I spent a couple thousand bucks ; mostly for the future of Keeney`s Corner and those who might keep it alive in the future in concept; not necessarily or need be in name...I spent most of it in MO, IA, and AR because judging from internet comments  , that`s where my cattle would be most needed...not because they are the kind the posters like; because it`s obviously the kind they will need in due time given their current directions  Smile 
so far, the greatest response has been from radio and magazines; trying to sell me more advertising...just too damn funny  Smile Smile Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:17 pm

grabbed a few random shots before the new patch of mud arrived with the current rain...the bulls look more like calves than bulls; not very heavy...I know time will change that; feed even more so if you are in a hurry...I`m not in a hurry anymore; less expensive...







there`s a showoff in every crowd of pubescent boys...



it`s the pages that make the book, not the cover...it`s the population, not the individual...I believe; in fact, know that`s true...maybe if I say that long enough, individuals will stop catching my eye...

Norcal, is there a treatment for judging team addiction?  Smile  Smile
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Mark Day



Posts : 224
Join date : 2010-09-24
Age : 51
Location : Russellville, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:12 am

Looking forward to bringing one of those calves home with me.  Surprised  Been using your genetics long enough to know the daughters will weigh about 1150-1300 or so and the hanging weights on the extra bulls will typically be about 725-775 pounds. Considering the diminished risk of other "problems" showing up in the offspring I have no reason to consider any other genetics. Btw. Nothing wrong with admiring your work.
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tc



Posts : 75
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 67
Location : Moss,Tn

PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:08 am

MKeeney wrote:
grabbed a few random shots before the new patch of mud arrived with the current rain...the bulls look more like calves than bulls; not very heavy...I know time will change that; feed even more so if you are in a hurry...I`m not in a hurry anymore; less expensive...







there`s a showoff in every crowd of pubescent boys...



it`s the pages that make the book, not the cover...it`s the population, not the individual...I believe; in fact, know that`s true...maybe if I say that long enough, individuals will stop catching my eye...

Norcal, is there a treatment for judging team addiction?  Smile  Smile

What's the bull number behind #24  Mike...Shirley picked him out.....said she picked me out of a school annual.[ Not sure how good she is at picking??]
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:38 pm

Travis, I can`t tell...even blew up the pic/tag and still not clear...maybe Shirley can pick him out in the flesh if you come up Very Happy 
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tc



Posts : 75
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Age : 67
Location : Moss,Tn

PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:14 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Travis, I can`t tell...even blew up the pic/tag and still not clear...maybe Shirley can pick him out in the flesh if you come up Very Happy 

we may have to  that Mike..They all look nice.
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:52 am

I found this inquiry interesting and informative...the "white heifers" were purebreds...the whites crossed with my blacks, fertility has been excellent...no wonder Will likes crossbreds  Smile 

Mike

I was just curious if you had any bred heifers for sale. The few that I bought off of you back earlier have just now started calving and I am thrilled with them. I didn`t have real good results with the white heifers as two of the three came up open on me after 3 breeding cycles but the Angus heifers are top notch. After seeing your cattle and having a few of them myself I have decided that I need more if they are available. If any are could you please let me know how many I could get and what the asking price is.

Thanks
Aaron


I know there are probably a couple of crustly old cowmen out there saying to me  "I told you so " about them whites...
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Will



Posts : 183
Join date : 2012-04-17

PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:33 am

I'm not looking for an Angus bull but if I was I would take the same bull as tc. Who would get him? I think you are making a mistake pricing them all the same. Nice bulls. Pretty much the same type but there appears to be a difference. I don't think I would have a problem finding tc's choice in the pen but there might be more bulls like him then the pictures show. He's the stud of the pictured bulls. Don't like the white by the sack though. One of Jim Leachman's (Big Hat) favorite saying was a "crossbreeder can make more genetic progress in one generation than a purebred breeder can make in a lifetime." Might want to add a good crossbreeder but I have found that to be an accurate statement.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:43 am

Will wrote:
I'm not looking for an Angus bull but if I was I would take the same bull as tc.  Who would get him?  I think you are making a mistake pricing them all the same.  Nice bulls.  Pretty much the same type but there appears to be a difference.  I don't think I would have a problem finding tc's choice in the pen but there might be more bulls like him then the pictures show.  He's the stud of the pictured bulls.  Don't like the white by the sack though.  One of Jim Leachman's (Big Hat) favorite saying was a "crossbreeder can make more genetic progress in one generation than a purebred breeder can make in a lifetime."   Might want to add a good crossbreeder but I have found that to be an accurate statement.

A primary purpose of having the sale this way is to get producers over their judging team addiction of finding the outlier individual and to have greater appreciation for a uniform population...if the purpose of my purebreds is maternal predictability; shouldn`t that be greatest somewhere near the center?
As to who gets a bull, if demand was to become so great that choice become a problem, then we will draw straws...those producers who can`t adapt to this ideology will find plenty of mainstream marketers that will accept their premium payment for choice...
another factor is buyers often have different preferences ; even when the purpose is the same; to make good cows...no point in me undermining their confidence by pre-pricing what suites me higher...
I looked closely at the least likely marketable end when I took the pictures; if the demand is such; I`ll gladly take the money for the desired and use the less desirable on the 100 heifers I`m keeping to breed this summer...did the same thing a couple years ago; by yearling, had no clue who was who in the heifers...
case in point...Rocketman was a bull no one would have wanted at yearling...coming 2 yr old dau...

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tc



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:07 am

MKeeney wrote:
Will wrote:
I'm not looking for an Angus bull but if I was I would take the same bull as tc.  Who would get him?  I think you are making a mistake pricing them all the same.  Nice bulls.  Pretty much the same type but there appears to be a difference.  I don't think I would have a problem finding tc's choice in the pen but there might be more bulls like him then the pictures show.  He's the stud of the pictured bulls.  Don't like the white by the sack though.  One of Jim Leachman's (Big Hat) favorite saying was a "crossbreeder can make more genetic progress in one generation than a purebred breeder can make in a lifetime."   Might want to add a good crossbreeder but I have found that to be an accurate statement.

A primary purpose of having the sale this way is to get producers over their judging team addiction of finding the outlier individual and to have greater appreciation for a uniform population...if the purpose of my purebreds is maternal predictability; shouldn`t that be greatest somewhere near the center?
As to who gets a bull, if demand was to become so great that choice become a problem, then we will draw straws...those producers who can`t adapt to this ideology will find plenty of mainstream marketers that will accept their premium payment for choice...
another factor is buyers often have different preferences ; even when the purpose is the same; to make good cows...no point in me undermining their confidence by pre-pricing what suites me higher...
I looked closely at the least likely marketable end when I took the pictures; if the demand is such; I`ll gladly take the money for the desired and use the less desirable on the 100 heifers I`m keeping to breed this summer...did the same thing a couple years ago; by yearling, had no clue who was who in the heifers...
case in point...Rocketman was a bull no one would have wanted at yearling...coming 2 yr old dau...


would like to have several like her Mike. I like your sale format, Like I said that bull was Shirley's choice, I saw several others that I liked maybe better, but I am still very fond of the bull that I purchased a few years ago [he just turned 5 in Feb.] not sure I want to part with him anyway.
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:03 pm

No doubt about it, it will be interesting. I would guess the little ones will be left if any are left. Little might also mean younger. I don't know the birthdates of your bulls. How many bulls were in the group that these sale bulls came from? I always had younger and lighter bulls that got overlooked because people never looked at weight per day of age. In fact no one looked at weight per day of age when I figured it so I quit figuring it. Nice soggy heifer, might need to be straighter backed for my liking. I agree top performance and maternal are opposites within entire breeds but maybe not within a breeders herd. What price did you have Rocketman priced at?
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:00 pm

still waiting.
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:14 pm

"I agree top performance and maternal are opposites within entire breeds but maybe not within a breeders herd."

This is going to be a long wait. Of coarse Top is not yet defined.
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:41 pm

If you want a bull from Mike, have him pick him for you. That said, the showoff is my favorite. I want them all to be showoffs. Too hard to breed for more.
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:09 pm

Top performance is only top performance if it is passed on otherwise they are outlier freaks that will breed back towards herd average.
Curious Mike if the personality of these bulls are getting to be as similar as the looks?
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:31 pm

Uff Da
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:50 pm

Will wrote:
No doubt about it, it will be interesting.  I would guess the little ones will be left if any are left.  Little might also mean younger.  I don't know the birthdates of your bulls.  How many bulls were in the group that these sale bulls came from?  I always had younger and lighter bulls that got overlooked because people never looked at weight per day of age.  In fact no one looked at weight per day of age when I figured it so I quit figuring it.  Nice soggy heifer, might need to be straighter backed for my liking.  I agree top performance and maternal are opposites within entire breeds but maybe not within a breeders herd.  What price did you have Rocketman priced at?

I think Rocketman was $1500 ...Looks like we kept 55 bulls; and banded 30...may be more to band later; more dependent on demand for "the program" than the quality of the bulls...most in KY are steer, not program, oriented...

Will, don`t you want to buy my Angus-Wagyu cross heifers...be a time-saver-line step toward that Wagyu-Simm-Angus-Gel tru-line Wink  you are building...got a good cross bull as well...$2/lb for the " gene pool " Smile 
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Keeney Angus Spring Bull Sale   Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:18 pm

Thanks but no thanks. I'm having way to much fun to be in a rush. No need to save time. I enjoy building things and once there built I lose interest and go looking for something new to build. No need for a good cross bull for any price either but thanks anyway.
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