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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Some contentious reading    Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:48 pm

Thought I'd post this for anyone with time on their hands to read it. Must admit I skimmed the third part and the first two hardly at all. I certainly disagree with some of their assumptions or predictions for the role of grass-fed or forage-fed beef in the future. Maybe being dumb here but I assume these links will work for you?

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=14156b1ee33ea042&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3Ddc8624d3bc%26view%3Datt%26th%3D14156b1ee33ea042%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSHLAexrRyVke1TV-ZbOLKDcB_YwQ


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.3&thid=14156b1ee33ea042&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3Ddc8624d3bc%26view%3Datt%26th%3D14156b1ee33ea042%26attid%3D0.3%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSMscn8R9qCV-ssLi6xYq0mo9WZfQ


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.2&thid=14156b1ee33ea042&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3Ddc8624d3bc%26view%3Datt%26th%3D14156b1ee33ea042%26attid%3D0.2%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSkS-Tb_96MTnDd2h0c22InGdhIEA
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:49 am

[quote="Grassfarmer"]Thought I'd post this for anyone with time on their hands to read it. Must admit I skimmed the third part and the first two hardly at all. I certainly disagree with some of their assumptions or predictions for the role of grass-fed or forage-fed beef in the future. Maybe being dumb here but I assume these links will work for you?

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=14156b1ee33ea042&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3Ddc8624d3bc%26view%3Datt%26th%3D14156b1ee33ea042%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSHLAexrRyVke1TV-ZbOLKDcB_YwQ


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.3&thid=14156b1ee33ea042&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3Ddc8624d3bc%26view%3Datt%26th%3D14156b1ee33ea042%26attid%3D0.3%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSMscn8R9qCV-ssLi6xYq0mo9WZfQ


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.2&thid=14156b1ee33ea042&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3Ddc8624d3bc%26view%3Datt%26th%3D14156b1ee33ea042%26attid%3D0.2%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSkS-Tb_96MTnDd2h0c22InGdhIEA[/quote

darn it; the links did not work..back to sleep I go Smile 
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:14 am

I have a "grass-fed" survey from an Ag Economist from LSU sitting on my desk(actually two because I didn't fill out and send back the first one...and won't). I don't know about the rest of you, but I have never seen where an Ag Econ study has ever helped a Producer...work great for those that make their money off the backs of hard working Producers.

I've never read anything from academia about grassfed that has been worth my time to read, so GF, I'll agree with assumption to disagree.

You will probably have to paste a link that doesn't go through google.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:42 pm

I just emailed links to the 3 articles to Mike as I couldn't find them anywhere else on the web. It was Bill Helmings presentations from the Grassfed Exchange Conference in North Dakota this summer. Hopefully Mike can figure out how to post them as I can't.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:39 am

SOBERING STUFF...working on the conversions...also sending to my economist son for his thoughts...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:49 am

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:52 am

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:55 am



I may be all 12 years posting this Very Happy

 hmmmm; that`ll get me to 80...gosh, nothing to look forward economically to the rest of me life...except shooting 79 on my 80 birthday Smile
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:07 am

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LCP



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:01 pm

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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:37 pm

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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:42 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
LCP wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1jp7L2K65qL4x-dDeI-OJPPAcn3eO0fMliEWSn97eTaJDGazFh7pH6OYDxq14/edit?usp=sharing

Does this one work instead?
yes
Yeah! bounce 

So at risk of further copyright infringement here are parts two:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1O608ceQHrZiGqqY0O_guz_LfiZjNogVYrzH6ML7UmZ9He-abVUtxMan_efPF/edit?usp=sharing

and three: (the one that really interested me most)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1NcR2XndinU9Gl3fTGpUMxYm8AGa77-SZCmsAW3G-Vq4J7IukQ2s9ongLKPJq/edit?usp=sharing
Why should I target ground beef with grassfed beef? With pasture and stored feed management an excellent selection of high end beef can be produced and sell a better then commodity price.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:54 pm

PatB wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
LCP wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1jp7L2K65qL4x-dDeI-OJPPAcn3eO0fMliEWSn97eTaJDGazFh7pH6OYDxq14/edit?usp=sharing

Does this one work instead?
yes
Yeah! bounce 

So at risk of further copyright infringement here are parts two:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1O608ceQHrZiGqqY0O_guz_LfiZjNogVYrzH6ML7UmZ9He-abVUtxMan_efPF/edit?usp=sharing

and three: (the one that really interested me most)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1NcR2XndinU9Gl3fTGpUMxYm8AGa77-SZCmsAW3G-Vq4J7IukQ2s9ongLKPJq/edit?usp=sharing
Why should I target ground beef with grassfed beef?  With pasture and stored feed management an excellent selection of high end beef can be produced and sell a better then commodity price.
As a way to market cull breeders.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:09 pm

That was my initial reaction Pat but that''s only a small part of it. If you read the first two parts and agree with the conclusions of the author the commodity sector is headed to supplying substantially more ground beef as that is what the consumer is increasingly eating and the demographics they show indicate that trend will continue.

Having identified the need for more lean ground beef production and less fat they indicate that there will be a trend to more grass-fed versus feedlot to produce that. What they don't spell out but I think is implicit is that this new market will see lower prices for fed cattle - they have got to as they reckon they will sell less steaks and more burgers in future. I think that is why they see grass-fed beef as the future - because it can be done cheaper. The other point here is can American/Canadian ranchers compete in this market with our fixed costs? I'm sure Mexican or South American cattle would make pretty good grind too at substantially less cost.

Where their logic totally departed was citing Pharo type cattle as the solution. Having identified the need for efficient production of large quantities of lean beef off grass with a minimum fat level why would they advocate frame score 3 cattle that grow slowly and are of a type that lays down excessive fat? Maybe look to New Zealand and question why they use grass fed dairy bulls to produce lean ground? Or just turn the "feedlot genetics" cattle of today out on grass - plenty of them would produce lots of lean beef on grass! Using farao cattle just makes no sense.

Personally I'm not too concerned as my customer base for grass-fed contradicts the demographic portrayed in this presentation. The report totally ignores the perceived health benefits of grass-fed that many consumers feel is very important. It also fails to mention any potential environmental impact changes of moving to more grass-fed production.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:29 am

Where their logic totally departed was citing Pharo type cattle as the solution. Having identified the need for efficient production of large quantities of lean beef off grass with a minimum fat level, why would they advocate frame score 3 cattle that grow slowly and are of a type that lays down excessive fat?


perhaps the most over promoted, greatest misconception of the breeding business, is that there is any use for little, fat cattle...everyone on the O Canada trip saw the myth that you must use little cattle on grass shot all to hell...
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:34 am

EddieM wrote:

As a way to market cull breeders.
That was my plan...to sell everything vacuum packed.
Tyson bullied my USDA processor into retirement.
My custom processor can't kill anything over 30 months.

When I could sell labeled beef, I would tell reluctant customers to buy a package of my ground beef and a package from the store, then cook them side-by-side. Never lost one of those comparisons.
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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:41 pm

I`m betting this is even more contentious...


http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-news/latest/Canadian-feeder-cattle-exports-seen-surging-after-Tyson-move-229307431.html

I don`t know if the contributing influences that caused me to change my mind on COOL were John Lennon or the friendships of Grassy, Hilly and Dylan...anyway, I now think all these trade restrictions are just a useless retaliation war without end, and should go the way of breed associations...obsolete; just remove the restrictions, get your ass in gear and compete backed by your own brand name and ability...
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:34 pm

Yeah, I see COOL as just another layer of stupid bureaucracy that achieves nothing. Why is the origin of beef so important when 80% of the other stuff surrounding us is made in China? I think long term exports will be determined more by currency rates more than anything. This whole big "Alberta beef industry" and infrastructure they brag about was largely the result of the CDN $ being worth 67 cents US in the late 90s and early 2000s. Didn't work so well when the currencies reached parity.
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:08 am

I like to know which country my food is from. The chineese do not have the best tract record for food safety. I still maintain canada should scream long and loud that there beef be label product of canada. With a little spin it could be a major selling point like US beef overseas.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:13 am

That's OK then Pat - you'll soon be able to sleep at night knowing that the "American" beef you are eating was born in Canada and trucked to the US as a 700lb feeder rather than raised and fattened in Canada and trucked to the US for slaughter. Rolling Eyes
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:02 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
That's OK then Pat - you'll soon be able to sleep at night knowing that the "American" beef you are eating was born in Canada and trucked to the US as a 700lb feeder rather than raised and fattened in Canada and trucked to the US for slaughter. Rolling Eyes


I am not worried about canadian beef in my processed food but stuff from south america or other countries that have minimum food handling standards. Half the time I think the state of Maine would be better off as a providence of Canada.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:27 pm

If I wasn't eating my own I think I'd prefer eating some from "south America or countries with minimum food handling standards" over the commodity US/CDN product with the antibiotics, hormone implants and ractopamine as standard.
I had a customer in Calgary yesterday tell me an elderly relative of his, from Mongolia originally, just loves our grass-fed beef. She describes it as "medicine meat" and the best she has had since leaving her homeland. I kind of like that idea - selling medicine meat instead of drugged meat.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:14 pm

I agree Grassy...if you want to know where your meat comes from; buy it from the fellow who raised it from birth to your plate...
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:47 am

PatB wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
That's OK then Pat - you'll soon be able to sleep at night knowing that the "American" beef you are eating was born in Canada and trucked to the US as a 700lb feeder rather than raised and fattened in Canada and trucked to the US for slaughter. Rolling Eyes
 

I am not worried about canadian beef in my processed food but stuff from south america or other countries that have minimum food handling standards.  Half the time I think the state of Maine would be better off as a providence of Canada.
Then you'd better raise and preserve most of your own fruits and veggies, too.
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Some contentious reading    Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:11 am

MKeeney wrote:
I agree Grassy...if you want to know where your meat comes from; buy it from the fellow who raised it from birth to your plate...
Could be a money making opportunity there...ya think!
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